Transcript

Bart Sibrel:
The most powerful government in the world falsified their alleged greatest accomplishment. They did indeed fake the moon landing.

Brian Keating:
I want to treat Bart as a colleague, maybe not as an equal with our father.

Bart Sibrel:
Oh, my goodness.

Brian Keating:
If you would let me teach you some physics, then you could make your argument stronger.

Piers Morgan:
Charlie Duke is an Apollo astronaut, the 10th and youngest man to walk on the surface of the moon. What do you feel about the conspiracy theorists who think the moon landings were all invented? They never happened, they’re fake.

Charlie Duke:
You’re willfully ignorant if you don’t believe that we landed on the moon.

William Shatner:
What is the mindset of somebody who said, well, it didn’t really happen? That’s like the denial of humanity. These crazy individuals shouldn’t have our attention.

Piers Morgan:
Given this is the furthest that NASA have ever sent a rocket, presumably you think this must be fake, too. The Artemis II mission to the dark side of the moon will be the furthest human beings have ever traveled from Earth. It’s a precursor to a full return to the lunar surface and perhaps even reaching Mars. But for this trip, historic though it is, there will be no landing, no walking, no flags planted, very much unlike the Apollo mission of 50 years ago. In a moment, we’ll talk to the man who says he’s on a CIA hit list because he blew the whistle on what he says are the original moon landings being fake. But first, let’s talk to the Chancellor’s distinguished Professor of Physics at UC San Diego and host of the into the Impossible podcast. Welcome to you, Professor Keating, how are you?

Brian Keating:
Good to see you again, Piers.

Piers Morgan:
Well, good to see you. I’m obviously about to talk to Bart Sibrel. He’s made himself pretty infamous by ending up being punched by Buzz Aldrin for questioning to his face that he’d walked on the moon. And being part of that, of course, that first immortal trip. Before we get to him, what is your view of people that just don’t want to believe this has ever happened?

Brian Keating:
I think it’s something we need to take very seriously, but not literally. In other words, there are reasons. You could say there could be reasons why NASA and maybe the US Government, maybe even the CIA, would want to put a whack on Bart. As I’ve heard him describe it. Perhaps there are some mistruths that our government tell from time to time, but in order to believe the moon landings in the 1960s and 70s were fake, you need to believe a whole host of things that not only require vast conspiracy numbers involving hundreds of thousands of people, you need to Suspend your scientific reasoning and your ability to search for truth. You know, Piers, we live in an age that’s sometimes called post truth or post fact, where you’re entitled to your own ideas and theories. But in reality, what worries me more is not that people get facts wrong. I mean, that happens all the time.

Brian Keating:
Happens to me all the time as a scientist. But it’s that we undermine the process of truth seeking that no society can withstand. So I’m hoping to talk to Bart. He knows about me. I’ve invited him to chat on my podcast, and he’s turned it down for reasons that I don’t understand. So I’m eager to talk to him because I think it’s instructive for the public to see not only the great triumphs, but why we know for certain that these things happen and why it speaks to not only American exceptionalism, but humanity’s exceptionalism.

Piers Morgan:
Well, you know what? We’ll come back and discuss Artemis specifically in a bit. But given you’ve teed this up very nicely, and we have Bart Sibal waiting. Joining me now is Bart Cyril, who has been what many viewers, a conspiracy investigator about the moon landing, saying they’re fake. He even confronted, as I said, Buzz Aldrin. Let’s take a look at what happened then.

Bart Sibrel:
Yeah, you got to keep shooting, man. Okay, well, if you can put it on your shoulder. Don’t be shy.

Piers Morgan:
Just come with me first.

Bart Sibrel:
You really like attention, don’t you? You’re the one who said you walked moon when you didn’t. Calling the kettle black if I ever thought of it. Saying I misrepresented myself.

Charlie Duke:
Get away from me.

Bart Sibrel:
You’re a coward and a liar and a thief.

Piers Morgan:
Well, Bart Sibel joins me now. Welcome to Uncensored. I’ve actually met Buzz Aldrin. All I remember is he had one of the hardest handshakes I’ve ever encountered on any human being. Ever. So you were quite courageous there, Barster, Albeit as you were calling one of the great modern heroes a coward. Why are you so obsessed about branding the lunar landings fake?

Bart Sibrel:
Well, because one of the most historic events in human history isn’t putting a man on the moon. It’s that the most powerful government in the world that hypocritically claims to represent truth and justice falsified their alleged greatest accomplishment. They did indeed fake the moon landing. And, Brian, first time I’ve ever seen you speak. He’s obviously highly intelligent and a very reasonable person. Unfortunately, people want to believe a tantalizing lie like their team ran or Won the Super Bowl. What he’s, you know, he claims, I’m denying scientific reasoning, but actually he’s doing that because it’s never happened in the history of the world that a milestone is technologically occurred, like, let’s say flying across the Atlantic in 1927 or breaking the sound barrier or splitting the first atom. It’s never happened in the history of the world that more than 50 years later, no one could accomplish it.

Brian Keating:
What would hopefully happen today?

Bart Sibrel:
Well, you know, let me, let me. I’m up against. We’ve heard your side of the story for 57 years.

Brian Keating:
I would love to just comment on that. I have actual experience with an event that happened and it was separated by 60 years. I reached the South Pole twice in 2007 and 2009. Do you know who the first people to reach the South Pole were, Bart?

Bart Sibrel:
Well, Amundsen, Scott?

Brian Keating:
Yeah, that’s right. And you know, Amundsen was from Norway. Hold on, hold on a second. Amundsen was the first.

Bart Sibrel:
They went to the moon ahead of us.

Brian Keating:
Reach it. And we didn’t go back for 50 years until 1964. We didn’t go back for 50 years. Exactly. Like what happened? Was it harder? Have I never been to the South Pole, Bart?

Bart Sibrel:
I don’t know. I mean, I presume that you have

Brian Keating:
video evidence of me there interviewed by.

Bart Sibrel:
Here we are with six. I’m not denying that. The, the fact is we have.

Brian Keating:
You just made a claim that nothing gets hard, nothing gets easier, unless this is technologically true.

Piers Morgan:
Well, I can offer. I would like to offer my own. Well, hang on, Bob.

Bart Sibrel:
I’m not getting much time to share my side of the story.

Piers Morgan:
But hang on. I’d like to offer my own contribution to that debate because I personally went on the last Concorde flight, which was about 20 years ago, and we have gone backwards in the speed of passenger air travel because it now takes twice as long for me to get to New York as it did 20 years ago. So there’s another example.

Bart Sibrel:
The question is, are there aircraft that fly higher and faster than the Concorde and there are not with.

Piers Morgan:
Not with passengers.

Bart Sibrel:
Well, people are on board the airplane.

Piers Morgan:
They’re not with. There’s no commercial plane. There’s no commercial plane that can get to New York in about.

Bart Sibrel:
There’s no commercial plane. That’s about six and a half hours.

Piers Morgan:
Royce Concorde did it in 2058. So the premise of your argument is flawed because you’ve already heard one example from Brian. You’ve heard one from me. I’m sure there are a myriad other examples, but I’m just keen before we get too far into the weeds on that part of it, you said here about the lunar landings. In order to appreciate the full absurdity of the lie, it bears repeating what both the US government and NASA claimed in the 60s on the very first attempt to an all. With one millionth computing power of a cell phone, they’ve been able to send astronauts to orbit and land on the surface of the moon. A distance that is 1,000 times farther than they can achieve with human spaceflight today. To buy into your conspiracy theory about this and it never happened.

Piers Morgan:
The sheer volume of people who must have signed up to this conspiracy. Right. Is overwhelming. Why is none of them. Why have none of the people that were part of the lie. Why have none of them broken ranks to say this was all faked?

Bart Sibrel:
Well, first of all, you’re incorrect. I spoke to Eugene Kranz, flight Director. He said that someone in the command center cannot tell the difference between a quote, rehearsal flight and a, quote, a real flight. Just because there’s 400,000 bank tellers at bank of America. What a bank teller knows about corruption in the bank and what the CEO knows are completely different. There’s only three eyewitnesses to every program, and who knows where they’re really going? The fact is, we did have someone come forward. Two people came forward. Betty Grissom, the widow of the man who was going to be the first man to walk on the moon.

Bart Sibrel:
I interviewed her for four hours before she died. I bet Brian did not do that. She told me that her husband called her on January 26, 1967, from NASA and said, han. For some strange reason, the CIA is over the launch pad today, inspecting the equipment. I’ve been here eight years, never seen him before. Why did they show up?

Brian Keating:
That never happened.

Bart Sibrel:
The very never happened.

Brian Keating:
Even your own testimony.

Piers Morgan:
Well, allow Brian to respond to that, please. Brian.

Brian Keating:
She never said that. Speaking.

Bart Sibrel:
He interrupted me. Allow me to.

Brian Keating:
You just made a claim about CIA. I want to do you a favor. I think what you do is important. I think, as I said originally, I think it’s important to question things. Certainly. Certainly the government lies to us.

Bart Sibrel:
Oh, thank you so much.

Brian Keating:
Hold on one second. But what Betty Grissom said. She said they were all over the CIA, was in the mission command center. She never said that. If you go back and look at your own transcripts. She said, didn’t say they were on the launch pad. Had access to the launch pad because it was full of rocket Fuel, so they wouldn’t even let the technicians near it, as you know. But Bart, I think you have much stronger evidence and I don’t know why you’re leading with the things that are most easily deflated.

Brian Keating:
I’d love to talk about what you claim.

Bart Sibrel:
Betty Grissom for four hours before she

Brian Keating:
died, did you say. I’ve read your transcripts. I’ve read transcripts by you and by her. She did say that they were CIA. She never said they were crawling over the launch pad. And does that prove that? The movie.

Bart Sibrel:
You weren’t even alive at the time. That’s what she told me in a foreign interview.

Piers Morgan:
Let me ask you, Bob. Let me bo. Let me ask you. What is the. What is the most convincing piece of evidence you had that it was faked?

Bart Sibrel:
Well, I have the crew of Apollo 11 faking being halfway to the moon using a one foot model of the earth. And I have the CIA on a third track of audio telling to fake a four second radio delay from Earth orbit. And then we have the eyewitness testimony of a deathbed confession of Cyrus Eugene Anchors who saw them film it at Cannon Air force base in 1968, even confessed to killing somebody to cover it up because the NSA asked him to do so. That’s a strange thing to be saying.

Piers Morgan:
You’ve also claimed. Also. You’ve also claimed. I’ll come to you, Brian, in a second. But you’ve also claimed you describe what you call as anomalous shadows that are not parallel, suggesting multiple artificial light sources in the studio rather than a single distant sun. So these photographs that we’re looking at now you think are indicative of fakery.

Bart Sibrel:
Well, let me also say I went from being the biggest fan, greater fan than Brian. I had a shrine of Apollo pictures in my house for decades and a filmmaker’s job is to make fake scenes look real. Go back to the picture and look how shadows should be in sunlight. The sun, it’s a million times bigger than the Earth in volume. It’s 93 million miles away. It’s going to cast shadows in the same direction on the Earth or the Moon. There’s two telephone poles about five feet apart. The shadows are parallel.

Bart Sibrel:
Here’s a picture they claim was taken on the moon, of objects five feet apart. The astronaut shadows at 12 o’, clock, the rock five feet away. The shadows at 9 o’.

Piers Morgan:
Clock.

Bart Sibrel:
That can only happen with a close electrical light, which we just proved with one photograph that they faked the moon landing. Despite what anybody says, despite what the corrupt federal Government says that picture cannot be duplicated in sunlight. It can only be duplicated with the lens here on Earth. Which means they didn’t go to the moon. Okay, I’m sorry to bring you the bad news.

Piers Morgan:
No, no, that’s your claim. Brian Keating, your response.

Brian Keating:
Well, again, I want to treat Bart as a colleague. Maybe not as an equal, but I want to treat him fairly. I don’t want to say, bart, you have much better evidence than I’ve heard you talk about.

Bart Sibrel:
Oh, my goodness.

Brian Keating:
Well, I don’t think you’re a trained scientist, Bart. I mean, if I go to my

Bart Sibrel:
Wikipedia page, I don’t think you’re a trained cinematographer, either.

Brian Keating:
When I go to my Wikipedia page,

Bart Sibrel:
it says electrical light.

Brian Keating:
Okay, Bart, when I go to my Wikipedia page, people can see that I’m listed as a professor of astrophysics with 40 years of experience. When they go to your page, it says conspiracy theorist. So I don’t want to say that we’re equal, because we’re not. We’re not in the same league. I will treat you like a peer. I will give you an expert review of what you’re talking about. But what I want to tell you

Bart Sibrel:
very clearly is you deceived your league, is parroting back what you’re told.

Brian Keating:
I want to know. I want to use your own words. I want to treat you seriously, Bart. I want to say that you have talked to Candace Owens on her podcast, and you describe what she later called the firmament, the asteroid belt, and then later, the Van Allen belts. This is one key piece of qualitative but quantitative evidence that you have presented which I think deserves attention. You have a claim the Van Allen belts are deadly and they are not survivable, and NASA knew that themselves. Correct or incorrect, Bart?

Bart Sibrel:
Well, show the clip. What a clip number is it here? Right. Let’s hear it in NASA’s own mouth.

Piers Morgan:
Well, we’ve got the clip. Hang on, hang on. We’ve got the clip. Let’s play the clip. So the. The Van Allen radiation belts. You’ve argued the radiation surrounding Earth is so extreme, it would have been lethal for any human to pass through, making the journey impossible. So let’s take a look.

Piers Morgan:
We’re gonna play the clip.

Kelly Smith:
My name is Kelly Smith, and I work on navigation and guidance for Orion. We are headed 3,600 miles above Earth, 15 times higher from the planet than the International Space Station. As we get further away from Earth, we’ll pass through the Van Allen Belts, an area of dangerous radiation. Radiation like this could harm the guidance Systems, onboard computers or other electronics on Orion. Naturally, we have to pass through this danger zone twice. Once up and once back. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space.

Kelly Smith:
We must solve these challenges.

Piers Morgan:
So that’s your claim, Bart. Professor Keating, what’s your response to that?

Bart Sibrel:
Well, it’s not my claim. It’s NASA’s claim. He said, we must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. Meaning? The radio.

Brian Keating:
Very carefully. He doesn’t say, because we’ve never done it before. He never asked me. Do you interrupt?

Bart Sibrel:
Because I’m not in the same league as you and you’re better than me that you.

Piers Morgan:
No, we just played an extended clip that you produced about a certain theory. So Professor Keating would not respond.

Brian Keating:
Right, So, a whiteboard sketch by some NASA engineer who is, to my knowledge, not sketching the exact schematics of the trajectory he shows and he describes. The Van Allen belts are deadly. And you’re right, Bart, they are deadly. And NASA knew that because. Who did Van Allen work for? John Van Allen worked for NASA. So in order for us to believe it, and he testified that the Van Allen belts, if traversed safely, were no threat to the astronauts beyond getting a few chest X rays, which you and I probably do every year. Right. So I have a model of the Van Allen belts here.

Brian Keating:
Here’s a plasma globe which has electron plasma in it.

Bart Sibrel:
I thought you bought that.

Brian Keating:
30,000. Hold on now. You’re not letting me present scientific evidence.

Bart Sibrel:
Okay.

Brian Keating:
There are electrons in here that are at 30,000 degrees Kelvin, far hotter than the temperature of the melting point of aluminum, which you talk about in that documentary, which I’ve seen many times, to debunk it inside of this plasma globe. The reason I don’t get melted is because the electron density is tiny. It is anisotropic. If you go at different regions through the Van Allen belts, it’s completely safe. And one last thing that NASA engineer mentioned. He said it could be dangerous to the navigation systems, the electronics. Correct. That means that according to you, we never even sent electronics, telemetry, anything through the Van Allen belts.

Brian Keating:
But you know who else agrees that we did? The Soviets. Our arch nemesis. Piers, you may not know this. The same day that we landed on the moon, the Russians had a probe that they were trying to return samples from the Moon. Like this moon rock that I have here. And they were trying to return it to Earth to beat us. And they ended up crashing that spacecraft. On July 21, 1969, they failed to reach it from, but they agreed to coordinate with NASA.

Brian Keating:
So they didn’t hit the Apollo lander because they agreed that would be a much worse thing. Now appears. Can you imagine us coordinating with Ayatollah Khomeini right now? And he’s gonna congratulate us tomorrow or tonight when the Artemis mission lands. That’s what goes around the moon. That’s exactly what happened. So the best evidence bar doesn’t come from America even. It comes from the Chinese, from the Indians, from the Russians, who are our nemesis at the time, proving that we went there with their own images, data and scientific evidence. So that’s the way we do things as a scientifically literate society.

Piers Morgan:
And your theory, Your theory, Bob.

Bart Sibrel:
Hang on, scientists. One of the facts you’re ignoring is that. What is his name? Rotajin Dmitry. He was the former commander of the Soviet equivalent of NASA. He said as soon as he retired the moon missions were fake. And then I have a friend who works at the Chinese Space agency. He says that they’re blackmailing NASA in exchange for technology that Congress forbid them to receive.

Brian Keating:
So we have retroactively to the Soviet Union, which doesn’t exist anymore.

Bart Sibrel:
He has. Wait a minute. We have the Russian space director saying the moon missions are fake. And we have an employee of the Chinese space agency saying they know the missions are fake and are being blackmailed by the United States.

Piers Morgan:
And your theory, your theory about motivation, your argument is that the they were faked to ensure a Cold War victory for the US over the Soviet Union. You contend that NASA was under immense pressure to fulfill President Kennedy’s goal of landing a man on the moon by the end of the 60s, but they lacked the ability technologically to do it. According to you, the risk of high profile failure and subsequent national humiliation led the US Government and CIA to stage the events in a studio instead. To which my obvious question would be a look. Full disclosure. I don’t believe a word of it. However, let’s just assume for a moment your theory is correct. Which studio? Where? Where did they do this?

Bart Sibrel:
Well, I guess you weren’t paying attention when I said they filmed it at Cannon air Force Base, June 1, 2nd and 3rd of 1968, according to an eyewitness who confessed to killing a coworker to cover up the moon landing fraud.

Piers Morgan:
Sorry, I did hear what you said, but there were a number of lunar landings. So you’re saying that it was all done in this one studio?

Bart Sibrel:
Well, no, we know. We know that the first one. The TV images were filmed at Cannon Air Force Base, according to an eyewitness who confessed to a homicide that was investigated by the military police, the United States Senate Intelligence Committee and the FBI. And when they investigated, they asked him, why did he kill this co worker at Cannon Air force base in 1968? He said to cover up the moon landing fraud. He took an oath by the NSA for secrecy. His co worker was going to tell the public and he killed him to keep it a secret. And back to whether the radiation belts are lethal or not. Don’t take my opinion.

Bart Sibrel:
Don’t take Brian’s opinion. Go to sabrell.com and read Van Allen’s opinion, his document that he published after sending probes up into the radiation belts in 1958. Scientific American article. And he says they are 250 times a lethal dose. So when they say we have.

Brian Keating:
That is depending on how you go through it, Bart. If you go through a rainstorm through the eye of a hurricane, it’s much different than going through the outskirts of it where it’s a nice light London fog, perhaps. It’s very different. Your Van El belts are highly anisotropic. I want to teach you some physics.

Piers Morgan:
Hard.

Brian Keating:
If you. If you would. If you would let me teach you some physics, then you can make your argument stronger, perhaps. Okay. There’s multiple Van Allen belts. There’s an inner Van Allen belt. There’s an outer Van Allen bell.

Bart Sibrel:
Teach me, professor who? Parents back.

Brian Keating:
I’ve heard you refuse to debate me. Bart, this is my only chance to debate you. You refuse to debate me on Joe Rogan. You refuse to debate me on Joe.

Bart Sibrel:
I never received an invitation to debate.

Brian Keating:
Yes, you said you’ve received the invitation on Danny Jo podcast, and you said you don’t want to debate me because I’m a victim. Much like pedophilia victims. It was so bizarre. I want to take my opportunity.

Bart Sibrel:
He asked me if I wanted to debate you, and I said no, because you’re a victim. You have Stockholm syndrome. You’re defending the people who are deceiving you. You’re not the perpetrator.

Brian Keating:
The Russians did. The politburo. The politburo that testified and said, congratulations,

Bart Sibrel:
what happened on the moon.

Brian Keating:
Wait, why did. Why did the Russians.

Piers Morgan:
Do you mind if I just cut to the quick here? Do you think you’re just full of shit, mate?

Bart Sibrel:
What’s that?

Piers Morgan:
Do you think you’re just full of shit?

Brian Keating:
No, I don’t think he does.

Piers Morgan:
Is it all just a scam just to make money? Raise your profile.

Bart Sibrel:
Well, I mean, come on.

Piers Morgan:
Spewing such obvious bullshit around the world about something that everyone knows happened, and you’ve made yourself well known.

Bart Sibrel:
Let me boil it down for you.

Piers Morgan:
You answer your question, insulted Buzz Aldrin to the point he punched you.

Bart Sibrel:
I’m sorry. It’s the truth. It, about corruption is insulting to people who are flattered by it in a fallen world. The fact is, JFK’s relatives say with 100% certainty he was killed by the CIA. Robert McNamara on his deathbed said they started the Vietnam war and killed 58,220 of their own people on a CIA fabrication. So they’re killing tens of thousands of their own people, so presumably killing their own president. Wait a minute. So they’re not going to have a problem faking a TV image.

Piers Morgan:
Okay.

Bart Sibrel:
The only problem is that. That it’s a positive line.

Piers Morgan:
Okay, but just to be clear, then, to extrapolate your theory, given this is the furthest that NASA have ever sent a rocket to the dark side of the moon, presumably you think this must be fake, too?

Bart Sibrel:
Oh, no, I hope. I hope they are able to do it. The issue is, how do you think about it?

Piers Morgan:
So do you believe the Artemis rocket is gonna be a genuine mission or a fake?

Brian Keating:
Does it have to go to the Van Allen Belt?

Bart Sibrel:
I would assume it’s gonna be genuine.

Piers Morgan:
How does it get through the Van Allen Belt?

Bart Sibrel:
Why is it. Listen, the issue.

Piers Morgan:
Hang on. No, how does it get through? How does it get through the Van Allen Radiation Belt?

Bart Sibrel:
I got two people not letting me finish this sentence.

Piers Morgan:
How does it get through?

Bart Sibrel:
The issue is. The issue is.

Piers Morgan:
That is the issue.

Bart Sibrel:
Why is it with six decades of better technology, they can only do 20% of what Apollo did? It’s electrical.

Piers Morgan:
So do you accept the Moon, but do you accept now that rocket, space rockets can get through the Van Allen Radiation Belt?

Bart Sibrel:
Unmanned ones? And maybe they have protection? We know they didn’t have protection as of 2014. He said we must solve these radiation challenges before we send people through this region of space, which anything prior to 2014 did not leave Earth orbit. He said so himself. Okay, I’m sorry.

Brian Keating:
So do you think Elon Musk is in? Or do you think. Do you think Elon Musk is deceiving himself?

Bart Sibrel:
Well, he knows the moon missions are fake. He’s playing ball. He didn’t want to bite the hand that feeds him.

Piers Morgan:
So he’s. He’s all part of the conspiracy, is he?

Bart Sibrel:
It’s not a conspiracy. It’s simply they perpetrated a fraud. They did a counterfeit. They cheated. Elon Musk says to return to the moon, they’re going to need 15 fuel launches first. I got a clip here. Number five. A guy who works for NASA says it’s going to take 30 launches of fuel in order to have enough fuel to go to the moon.

Bart Sibrel:
So how did Apollo do it with 1/30 the amount of fuel? I mean, the truth is right there in front of you.

Piers Morgan:
Final words to Professor Technology.

Bart Sibrel:
And they can only do 20% of what they claim to did with 1 million.

Piers Morgan:
Okay, Professor Keating can’t even land. Professor Keating, final word to you about the Armistice 2 mission.

Brian Keating:
Well, I just want to say, first of all, to fake the moon landings would have been much more cost prohibitive, difficult, and involve a much larger conspiracy than actually doing them. We have evidence from around the world. Scientific work. Scientists are the most likely people to want to shoot down experts. Bart, this is where I feel like you’re not taking advantage of me as a collegial engagement because we’re the most interested in proving things wrong. That’s what we do for a living, Bart. But on the topic of science, what Artemis is going to do appears is perhaps pave the way for us to extend our consciousness, our civilization, into the solar system, into the universe beyond. Because what happens if a large meteorite, a huge asteroid impacts the Earth, God forbid, or a global pandemic happens again? And all those reasons, by the way, are reasons that Bart should support the mission of NASA, which has provided such a great deal of technology that has enabled him.

Brian Keating:
If he’s ever been on a commercial airliner. I used to work for NASA, working on aviation safety. NASA does a whole lot more than just landing on the moon, as amazing as that is. And they do it all peers for a budget that’s equal to what women in America spend on makeup. About 20 to 25 billion dollars. Most people think it’s 10 times higher. It’s very low amount of money. We’re going to go there, we’re going to build telescopes.

Brian Keating:
We’re going to explore habitation there. We’re going to build rockets. Because the moon is full of ice and its craters that are shadowed. Ice is hydrogen and oxygen.

Piers Morgan:
You know, I think it’s going to be great. And I love all this stuff. And I think the answer to the whole thing is that when they actually send people to walk on the moon again, they should send Bart up there. Bart, you should get on the rocket.

Brian Keating:
Let’s do a debate there, Bart.

Piers Morgan:
Yeah, and we can continue the debate on the surface of the moon. And then Bart, my opening line would be, see? Told you got to leave it there. Thank you all very much. Bart, thank you. Thank you, Professor Keating, thank you very much.

Brian Keating:
Thank you, Piers. Thank you, Bart.

Piers Morgan:
Well, let’s turn now to too many, most certainly no fact from fiction when it comes to space travel. Charlie Duke is an Apollo astronaut, the 10th and youngest man to walk on the surface of the moon. A legendary actor and part time astronaut, William Shatner, sometimes known as Captain Kirk of the USS Enterprise, particularly by men of my generation who were weaned on that glorious character. Welcome to both of you. Charlie Duke, what an amazing thing to have walked on the moon. Just we’ve got some footage of you which I’ll just show my viewers to remind them of your great moment. Let’s have a look at this.

Charlie Duke:
Hey John, while you’re sampling there, you might look around and see if you see any of that vesicular basalt.

Bart Sibrel:
That’s what I’m looking at.

Charlie Duke:
Good. Joe, I told him you were.

Bart Sibrel:
Whoop.

Charlie Duke:
Okay, we see that one went all the way in.

Bart Sibrel:
Not quite

Piers Morgan:
my first thought watching that Charlie, was a couple of months ago I tripped and broke my hip. And if I’d been in an airless environment like that, I probably would have escaped without injury. So I’m very jealous of the fact that you were falling over there in such conditions. But to be serious for a Moment, you were 36 when you walked on the moon, the youngest to do it at the time. And it’s 1972. Just a basic question, what was it like?

Charlie Duke:
Well, it was one of the most exciting adventures that I’ve ever had in my life. Of course we enjoyed every moment of it. We had three excursions out on the surface. We had a tremendous opportunity to explore the lunar highlands for three days. And John and I didn’t want to come home. We were having so much fun. But they said, get back inside guys, it’s time to come back. Anyway, we did a great job, I thought, corrected 200 pounds of moon rocks and did a lot of good experiments and left a lot of experiments up there to operate.

Charlie Duke:
So it was a tremendous opportunity for us.

Piers Morgan:
You also had another extraordinary role in the first lunar landing when you famously responded to Neil Armstrong saying the Eaglers landed with the words Roger Twang. Tranquility, we copy you on the ground. You’ve got a bunch of guys about to turn blue. We’re breathing again. Thanks a lot. Which was fantastic.

Charlie Duke:
I was so excited that Tranquility came out twang at first, and so I corrected myself. Neil had told me that he was changing a call sign to tranquility from Apollo 11 or whatever, Eagle. And so I was prepared for it. But it was so exciting a moment there, you know, we landed with maybe 20 seconds fuel remaining, and so there was a lot of tension. And when Neil said, well, Buzz said, contact engine stop and we’re there on the ground, it was just excitement got me. And twang came out instead of tranquil.

Piers Morgan:
William Shatner, welcome back to Uncensored. Always great to talk to you. You obviously went to space recently and you were very emotional, I remember about the experience, understandably. How much would you have liked to have walked on the moon like Charlie? And how envious are you of this latest mission, which is the precursor potentially to people doing it again?

William Shatner:
Well, these guys, like test pilots and explorers and people who venture out into essentially the unknown, enjoy it like it’s a thrill, like, I mean, falling like you described. You fell on Earth and you had difficulty, you broke your hip. He falls on the moon and there’s nobody there to help him up, right? And he’s got a pack on his back. It’s awkward. He’s alone. These explorers, these test pilots, these astronauts, they get off on the adventure. We ordinary people have to imagine what it’s like to see flame going past your window, wondering whether the shields are going to hold or not, whether 20 seconds of fuel is enough to get back up. And there’s this whole exploration mentality that requires, I mean, it’s insanity, really, to want to do that.

William Shatner:
And they’re insane in a great way, furthering us. But these people going up in Artemis, they’re in the same tentative position. They don’t know whether that shield is going to hold. They don’t know whether the. The hydrogen is going to explode. And I, when I went up and I, on my way up the gantry, I passed by the off gassing. I said, what’s that? They said, it’s hydrogen. I said, hydrogen? That’s one of the most explosive, elusive gases we have.

William Shatner:
They’re dealing with the unknown, they’re dealing with exploration, they’re dealing with death. Have they come to grips with what death is? What’s on the other side? All those enormous questions are, I don’t know whether the astronauts are sitting in the Artemis thing right now, but you can imagine them leaning back, looking up into the sky, waiting for this explosion under them, wondering whether they’re going to live or die, and see their children

Piers Morgan:
and their Loved ones again, I feel exactly the same way. I just want to show viewers a couple clip of you in space because it was great. Let’s take a look at this. God, weightlessness.

William Shatner:
Oh, Jesus. No description can equal this. Wait, this is nuts. Oh,

Piers Morgan:
This is Earth.

Bart Sibrel:
Oh.

William Shatner:
Oh,

Piers Morgan:
holy hell. I mean, amazing experience. And you, like I said, you got emotional afterwards. But I, you know, I do remember very vividly I was born in 65 and I remember watching the original series of Star Trek, which I think, I think there were three series, weren’t there, of the original television show.

William Shatner:
Three years.

Piers Morgan:
Yeah, three years. And you know, it was, the mission statement was to boldly go where no man has gone before. And what I just remember being struck by, and particularly is, now I look back on it was how kind of multicultural the starship Enterprise was. You had Mr. Sulu, Chekhov, Uhuru. It was, this was a real visionary thing that you guys were putting on tv.

William Shatner:
It was, it was visionary television, but it reflected what the visionary was happening on Earth. That was the time when things were being built and the concept of going into space was new and exciting. This shot, this thing, this Artemis thing, I think is even more precarious than any of the others because there’s so many unknowns. These are ships that haven’t been flown that way before. There’s technology that hasn’t been used. There’s four inexperienced, trained but inexperienced astronauts. The trepidation on this thing that’s happening in our lifetime and in, in our present day is ranks with Shackleton and Scott and exploration of the South Pole, which I was at. And I sat on a ice cap that was a desert.

William Shatner:
There was nothing around. There was nothing. Imagine nothing around you.

Charlie Duke:
You’re forlorn.

William Shatner:
It’s one of the airport.

Piers Morgan:
We have a man sitting here still, Charlie Duke, who can not only imagine it, he was on the moon on his own.

William Shatner:
I know. So you need to explore that mind, that mindset. When he fell over, did he think, I’m going to die?

Piers Morgan:
Well, let’s ask him. And what, Let me ask him, Charlie, Like a turtle.

William Shatner:
Like a turtle on his back.

Piers Morgan:
Well, let me, let me ask the man himself. Unable to get up. We can ask him, Charlie, what did you feel when you fell over?

Charlie Duke:
Well, when I fell down, I said, I gotta get up. We practiced and practiced and practiced. We’d been in the zero G airplane, we’ve done that on Banner, I’ve fallen on my back, I’ve ditched this. And we had, we practiced all of that. And so we were prepared for these unusual eventualities. But it wasn’t like it was something that we hadn’t thought about.

William Shatner:
Yeah, but it’s one thing.

Charlie Duke:
How do we get up?

William Shatner:
It’s one thing.

Charlie Duke:
We pray for it.

William Shatner:
It’s one thing to practice and practice and practice. And somebody says, are you okay? Yeah, I’m okay. I’m practicing. It’s another thing to be forlorn on a planet that there’s no. There’s no way out. You’re. You’re fallen and you can’t get up. I mean, that’s just one of the things.

William Shatner:
20 seconds of fuel. You gotta get back up there and rendezvous. I mean, the things are extraordinary.

Piers Morgan:
I mean, on that point. I mean, it’s a great point. By. By Bill. I mean, Charlie, obviously, this.

Charlie Duke:
Wait a minute. We had.

Piers Morgan:
Well, the question I’m going to ask you is it obviously carries enormous risk, Obviously. And this Artemis 2 is the most powerful rocket that NASA have ever fired up. And it’s going the furthest distance in terms of the sort of dark side of the moon, literally that we’ve sent people in relation to the moon. So this carries with it enormous obvious jeopardy. How do you. When you were doing this, how do you deal with the potential of not coming back, of just something terrible going wrong?

Charlie Duke:
We never thought about it. I can’t believe that we were sitting on the.

William Shatner:
I can’t believe.

Charlie Duke:
Charlie. I can’t believe that. Okay, that was a.

William Shatner:
That was an astronaut.

Charlie Duke:
We never thought about not coming back. We had. We had. We had trained. If you got caught, if it exploded, it exploded. We had an out. An escape system on top of the spacecraft for liftoff. If the thing exploded.

Charlie Duke:
I mean, NASA had thought about all of those things. You just know that if it was going to happen in some way and the suit split open and you got hit by a meteorite, it just wasn’t your day. Yeah, but you were going to make it.

William Shatner:
You got to remember, the Challenger. The Challenger is before us. All those of us who haven’t trained and have your mindset, think Challenger and Artemis. And if Artemis fails, what a psychological blow that would be to the space program. I mean, there are so many complex things happening here. To those of us who don’t have your ability to deny the potential of death.

Charlie Duke:
Do you remember Apollo 1? Apollo 1 blew up on the pad in a training accident.

Bart Sibrel:
Fire.

Charlie Duke:
They were killed.

William Shatner:
I remember that.

Charlie Duke:
Because of some. All right, but it didn’t stop us.

Piers Morgan:
No.

Charlie Duke:
We said, we got to fix this thing. We got to fix it and do it right. And so it took a year in the spacecraft.

William Shatner:
I’m, I’m talking about your frame of mind. I mean, the Challenger set back psychologically, the space program for a long while. Well, if Artemis fails, what a psychological blow that is. If Artemis is successful, what a glorious thing for the space program and progress to the moon.

Charlie Duke:
Let me tell you, if it fails, we’re going to try again. We’re not going to stop. That is just the attitude of the space program, attitude of the United States of America and an attitude with the astronauts. We’re going to make it successful. It might not be right away, but we’re going to make it successful. It’s something that we’re committed to and we’re going to do it right. If it doesn’t work right, then we’re going to fix it, just like we did on Apollo. After Apollo 1 caught fire, just after a couple others that almost didn’t make it back.

Charlie Duke:
Apollo 13, mission control and the crews came through and made a spacecraft that was built for two guys for three days, made it last for three, four guys, for no, three guys for five days. So, I mean, there’s just, you know,

Piers Morgan:
Charlie, as you’re talking, as you’re talking, Charlie, all I can think is to Bill Shatner, you know, who would be 100% in agreement with everything Charlie is saying, Captain James T. Kirk. He would have exactly the same mindset. Because actually it’s the never, never stop dreaming, you know, boldly go where no one’s been before. It’s that that motivates people. I mean, Charlie, just to ask you, I mean, if we do get back on the moon, what advice would you give for the astronauts who make that next amazing.

Charlie Duke:
Drink a lot of water. Drink a lot of water. Well, if just they haven’t the first landings on the moon, whatever Artemis that is, in a couple of years, I hopefully have a chance to be around to give them some advice if they want it. And it’s just train, be prepared. That’s what we did over and over and over again. It was like doing it in your sleep. We had trained so much, we’d work with mission control, we’d work with the crew, we’d work with the rover. We trained and trained and trained.

Charlie Duke:
And so that is the motivation behind Apollo crews. And what Artemis is, those guys, they’re not just going out into the, into the ether with no training. They’re. And Charlie, out of interest, be well prepared.

Piers Morgan:
Out of interest, what do you feel about the conspiracy theorists who think that all the moon. The moon Landings were all invented. They never happen. They’re fake.

Charlie Duke:
Well, the moon landed. The evidence is overwhelming that we landed on the moon. You’re willfully ignorant if you don’t believe that we landed on the moon five, six times and the evidence is there. We left experiments packages. Every landing spike has been photographed by the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter. You can see the descent stage, you can see the experiments package. You can see the cars on the last three missions and. The experiments have been operating or they operated for five years and got tons of data.

Charlie Duke:
We’ve got 600 pounds of moon rocks. Where did they come from? They just didn’t know and we brought them.

William Shatner:
What’s the mindset of somebody who says to these brave individuals and all the taxpayers money that went to making that happen. What is the mindset of somebody who said, well, it didn’t really happen? I mean, that’s nihilistic. That’s like the denial of humanity. These crazy individuals shouldn’t have our attention. It’s. It’s absurd.

Piers Morgan:
Charlie, do you have any of the moon at home? Did you keep a bit?

Charlie Duke:
No. They gave me a moon rock after 40 years, but I had to give it away. So I gave it to my prep school down in Admiral Farragut Academy. Two moonwalkers graduated from there, me and Alan Shepard. Alan Shepard first and then me.

Piers Morgan:
That’s amazing.

William Shatner:
I have a watch with Moondust on it.

Piers Morgan:
Really fantastic design. I’ve got a Captain James T. Kirk baseball cap. That’s all I can contribute to this debate. Gentlemen, what a fascinating time talking to you all. I can think of looking at both of you, I know your ages, I don’t need to repeat them. But I hope I have half the vitality for life and curiosity and excitement about what we don’t know. As you two guys have.

Piers Morgan:
You are an inspiration to all of us mere 61 year olds. So thank you very much indeed to both of you.

William Shatner:
Thank you for having us. It’s great. It’s great to see you, Charlie.

Charlie Duke:
Bye bye. I hope I’m still around when we make that first landing. And that next to me too.

Piers Morgan:
That would be.

Charlie Duke:
That would be very much for having me.

William Shatner:
Charlie and I walk hand in hand to greet them.

Piers Morgan:
That would be brilliant, wouldn’t it? I would love that. Can I come too?

Charlie Duke:
Yeah, you may.

Piers Morgan:
Thank you.

Charlie Duke:
I told NASA I’m still feel. I am still at 90. I’m still physically qualified to go into space.

Piers Morgan:
Really?

Charlie Duke:
NASA says don’t call us, we’ll call you. So I’m not expecting a call.

Piers Morgan:
Great. To talk to you both. Thank you both very much indeed.

William Shatner:
Pleasure. Thank you. Pleasure to see you both.

Charlie Duke:
Been a pleasure. Thank you, Pierre.

Piers Morgan:
Thanks, Charlie. Take care. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain, and we’ll do it all for free. Independent, Uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn’t do it without you.